In a stunning revelation, a forthcoming book by ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl uncovers a tense phone call between then-President Donald Trump and former Vice President Mike Pence on January 6, 2021, amid the chaos of the Capitol riots.
According to The Hill, this account, detailed in Karl’s book “Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America,” highlights the deep rift between Trump and Pence over the certification of Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory, a disagreement that ultimately strained their relationship and led to Pence’s 2024 presidential bid.
The events of January 6, 2021, marked a turning point in American political history. That day, as rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol, Trump placed a call to Pence, who was overseeing the certification of the electoral votes. The certification process was a procedural step to confirm Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election.
During this critical moment, Trump expressed his frustration with Pence for not intervening to halt the certification process. According to the book, Trump’s words were sharp and cutting. He reportedly told Pence, “You’ll go down as a wimp.”
In the same conversation, Trump allegedly added, “If you do that, I made a big mistake 5 years ago.” This remark referred to his decision to choose Pence as his running mate in 2016. The exchange underscored the growing divide between the two leaders on that fateful day.
As the call took place, Pence faced significant personal danger during the Capitol riot. Rioters breached the building, disrupting the certification process and threatening the safety of lawmakers and officials inside. Pence, as vice president, was a specific target for some of the violent intruders.
A former Situation Room officer, Mike Stiegler, later shared chilling details about the severity of the threat to Pence. In an interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in May 2024, Stiegler recounted the tense atmosphere as events unfolded. He emphasized how near the situation came to a tragic outcome for the vice president.
Stiegler revealed, “It’s important to me that we don’t forget that it did come that close, and that we did have discussions, ‘If we lose the [vice president,] if the 25th [Amendment] is invoked.’” He further explained, “We started running through all of these game plans because it was getting close.” These statements highlight the gravity of the danger Pence faced on January 6.
The fallout from that day permanently damaged the relationship between Trump and Pence. Their differing views on the election certification created an irreparable rift. This tension became a defining moment in their political partnership.
Following the events of January 6, Pence distanced himself from Trump. Years later, in 2024, he launched his own campaign for the presidency. This move signaled a clear break from his former ally and running mate.
The details of this dramatic confrontation are set to be published in Karl’s book, “Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America.” The book, scheduled for release on a Tuesday, promises to offer an in-depth look at the events surrounding Trump’s tenure. ABC News reported on these revelations in a story published on a Sunday, building anticipation for the full text.
Jonathan Karl, ABC News’s chief Washington correspondent, authored this account based on extensive research and interviews. His work aims to provide a comprehensive view of the dynamics between key political figures during a turbulent period. The book’s release is expected to reignite discussions about January 6 and its aftermath.
The phone call between Trump and Pence is just one piece of the larger puzzle of that historic day. It illustrates the intense pressure and conflicting loyalties at play during the Capitol riot. Their conversation remains a stark reminder of the divisions within the highest levels of government.
For Pence, the events of January 6 were not only dangerous but also politically transformative. His decision to uphold the certification process drew Trump’s ire and reshaped his future. Running for president in 2024, Pence sought to carve out his own path independent of Trump’s influence. As the book’s publication date approaches, readers and political observers alike await further insights. Karl’s reporting could shed additional light on other undisclosed moments from that chaotic period. The story of Trump and Pence continues to captivate and inform public discourse.